Ok, this blog is full of my "thoughts." I do not always think the same as other people. For that matter, usually I think differently than most people. That being said, I request right now that you put on your very discerning eyes as you read this. I am sharing with you some thoughts that I have on some subjects relating to God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ. I am going to suggest some things that you may have never heard before, and that perhaps I am wrong about, but they are thoughts that have come to me while reading His word. So, bear with me. I welcome all feedback, just be sure to keep it discerned as well.
Let me start with this, I believe that Jesus was a fairly wise Man. Wouldn't you say? He wouldn't just say something glibly or off the cuff, but everything He ever said was true, purposed and meaningful.
I heard in church yesterday a phrase that I have heard often before, "Jesus willingly gave up His life for us." And while hearing some of the lyrics in some of the music that I heard as well, my attention focused to the garden of Gethsemane. In the Garden, Jesus prayed three times to His Father. In the Garden, His soul was exceeding sorrowful. He was in such agony that His sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground. Recognize that this time in the Garden must have been a time of turmoil in the universe. So, what about Jesus' will in regards to the Cross?
"he... fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me..." The cup He refers to is the cup of the judgment of God. The cup that pours out God's wrath upon the sin of this world. Jesus was about to be made sin for us, and the cup was ready to be poured out on Him. Jesus prays, having fallen to His face, sweating drops of blood, "Father, IF IT BE POSSIBLE, let this cup pass from me."
Not only that, Mark records (Mar 14:36) the prayer using these words, "Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me..." Jesus recognized that Yes, it was possible for the cup to pass away from Him. It would have been possible for God to say, "You know what, I have shown enough love to the world by giving them my word, by giving them rain and allowing them to live. I have given them life and knowledge of what is right, and it is NOT My fault that they have rebelled against Me. I have loved them enough, I choose not to give them My Son as well." That would have been just and fair of God to have done. Jesus knew this. He said, It is possible. He makes this request to God the Father: "Take away this cup from me." Jesus is not speaking lightly. This is a moment of agony and sorrow. Jesus truly meant what He said.
We all know the next phrase that Jesus says, after making this request to the Father to spare Him: "Nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done." Did Jesus mean that? Did He mean when He said, "not my will be done?" My suggestion is that Jesus' will was NOT to suffer the shame of the cross for you and me. His will was to be spared from that hour. His desire was that God would exercise His omnipotent sovereignty and let the cup pass from Him, and to keep Him from that hour.
Let me start with this, I believe that Jesus was a fairly wise Man. Wouldn't you say? He wouldn't just say something glibly or off the cuff, but everything He ever said was true, purposed and meaningful.
I heard in church yesterday a phrase that I have heard often before, "Jesus willingly gave up His life for us." And while hearing some of the lyrics in some of the music that I heard as well, my attention focused to the garden of Gethsemane. In the Garden, Jesus prayed three times to His Father. In the Garden, His soul was exceeding sorrowful. He was in such agony that His sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground. Recognize that this time in the Garden must have been a time of turmoil in the universe. So, what about Jesus' will in regards to the Cross?
"he... fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me..." The cup He refers to is the cup of the judgment of God. The cup that pours out God's wrath upon the sin of this world. Jesus was about to be made sin for us, and the cup was ready to be poured out on Him. Jesus prays, having fallen to His face, sweating drops of blood, "Father, IF IT BE POSSIBLE, let this cup pass from me."
Not only that, Mark records (Mar 14:36) the prayer using these words, "Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me..." Jesus recognized that Yes, it was possible for the cup to pass away from Him. It would have been possible for God to say, "You know what, I have shown enough love to the world by giving them my word, by giving them rain and allowing them to live. I have given them life and knowledge of what is right, and it is NOT My fault that they have rebelled against Me. I have loved them enough, I choose not to give them My Son as well." That would have been just and fair of God to have done. Jesus knew this. He said, It is possible. He makes this request to God the Father: "Take away this cup from me." Jesus is not speaking lightly. This is a moment of agony and sorrow. Jesus truly meant what He said.
We all know the next phrase that Jesus says, after making this request to the Father to spare Him: "Nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done." Did Jesus mean that? Did He mean when He said, "not my will be done?" My suggestion is that Jesus' will was NOT to suffer the shame of the cross for you and me. His will was to be spared from that hour. His desire was that God would exercise His omnipotent sovereignty and let the cup pass from Him, and to keep Him from that hour.
Jesus did not want to suffer the wrath of God for me.
I believe that Philippians 2:5-8 gives us the clarification of that phrase, that I really don't like saying. It says that Jesus humbled Himself. Being equal and sharing in the glory of God the Father, Jesus took on Himself the form and fashion of a servant man. And the phrase that I want to focus on is this, "he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross." Jesus' humbled Himself, put aside His will, which in this point in time apparently differed from the will of the Father, and went to the cross to glorify His Father. To demonstrate for all mankind the Love and Mercy and Grace of God the Father. Jesus desired to glorify the Father more than He desired to have His own will fulfilled.
Jesus suffered the wrath of God, for the glory of God, not because He loved us so much.
After you let that sink in for a minute... continue reading.
How dare we think that we should get what we want! How dare we think that we are owed something by anybody. Jesus made one request to His Father, "Father, I know it's possible, take away this cup." In agony, He made one request, but determined that to be obedient to His Father was more important than His own comfort or desire. How dare we do something against God's will just because it makes our life easier or more comfortable, or just because we want it!
The next time you are taking for granted your salvation. Remember the garden. Jesus, the wise Son of God and Son of Man, prayed to His Father to let Him skip the sacrifice. The results of answering that prayer would have left us all to pay for our own sins with eternity in Hell... And Jesus was willing to let that happen. But, He was more willing to give to the Father that which He wanted.
He laid down His life. No man took it from Him. But that was not from His own desire, but rather from His Father's.
A sobering thought...
How dare we think that we should get what we want! How dare we think that we are owed something by anybody. Jesus made one request to His Father, "Father, I know it's possible, take away this cup." In agony, He made one request, but determined that to be obedient to His Father was more important than His own comfort or desire. How dare we do something against God's will just because it makes our life easier or more comfortable, or just because we want it!
The next time you are taking for granted your salvation. Remember the garden. Jesus, the wise Son of God and Son of Man, prayed to His Father to let Him skip the sacrifice. The results of answering that prayer would have left us all to pay for our own sins with eternity in Hell... And Jesus was willing to let that happen. But, He was more willing to give to the Father that which He wanted.
He laid down His life. No man took it from Him. But that was not from His own desire, but rather from His Father's.
A sobering thought...
10 comments:
"But, He was more willing to give to the Father that which He wanted."
AMEN!!!
I wonder if Jesus remembered while in the Garden what he spoke at the sermon on the mount (Matt 6:19,20).
Jesus was indeed willing. He was willing to obey the Father more than He was to escape the cross. We must not forget that Jesus was fully God and fully man.
For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son...
The God side of Jesus was willing to suffer not only for God's glory, but for God's love for the world...which is of course, Christ's love for the world.
The human side suffered temptation like as we. Not only the temptation of Satan, but the temptation to disobey what he had been called to do. The human Jesus learned obedience. When the people mocked Him by asking Him to prove Himself by coming down from the cross, we KNOW that He COULD have. But He did not. Why?
Because in his God nature He loved man enough to pay the price. (John 3:16) Yes, and bring glory and honour to the Father...perhaps even more so than love. But in His humanity, He was WILLINGLY obedient, dispite not wanting to go to the cross. He could have said no.
Have a wonderful day Andy
Good thoughts, Mike & Seth, thanks for commenting today. I do want to know what people think on this subject.
It is good to point out that we are dealing specifically with two Persons of the Trinity here. I suppose there are two times in history where the Trinity really gets uncomfortably incomprehensible to me... First, here in the garden. The Son seems to have a different will than the Father - Yes, the Son was human as well, but He was still a sinless human, and He wanted to let the cup pass. Second, when on the Cross, and the Father forsakes the Son.
I am so glad that the Son learned obedience!
i think the key is Jesus was fully God and fully man at the same time. incomprehensible to us to understand how that worked. (i.e. he could sin he was a man, but he couldn't sin he was God, etc.) and as such jesus was willing to sacrifice himself not only for His fathers glory AND by extension His own glory...
i don't think that you can make this statement without some serious ramifications 'Jesus suffered the wrath of God, for the glory of God, not because He loved us so much.' however i understand the point you are trying to make.
Matt, I'm not sure I have a point that I'm trying to make!
But, what kind of serious ramifications are there if that statement is true? That's what I would like to toss around.
well i agree with your statement (point?) in so much that 'Jesus suffered the wrath of God, for the glory of God' (himself)
Jesus says in John 10 that 'I and my Father are one' so taking that a little further your statement would read 'Jesus suffered the wrath of Jesus, for the glory of Jesus' how hard is that to figure out?!
but we know from numerous scriptures that Jesus was sent to endure that wrath BECAUSE of God's (Jesus') love for us (the world) e.g. John 3:16.
it's kind of easy i guess to explain it or make the statement that you made if you (allowing for the limits of our human understanding) can separate God the Father and God the Son as two separate entities. but you can't.
so i guess what i'm saying is i agree with your though completely, except for the 'not because he loved us so much' end of it...
sorry for all the ().
Matt, the separating of the Father and Son into two separate 'entities' is the part that I agree with you is mind boggling. I just see that there is some sort of 'separation' when at the cross and the Father forsakes the Son (My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me...) That is the point I'm trying to make here and there.
You and I are on the same page, I am just emphasizing the apparent separations, like I keep saying in 2 places - the garden and the cross.
yeah i've thought about that. Jesus had the wrath of God (that we have earned) poured out on him. this obviously took place between his crucifixion and resurrection so i don't know how that all worked as Jesus was forsaken and having God's wrath poured out on him and can we say that at one point Jesus was not fully God? because if he failed to be God at one point in history it could possibly happen again?
haha if anyone doesn't know me who reads this i am not doubting Jesus' divinity just rambling on things i can't comprehend.
You know, Matt, I think much of this relates to human words placed on God's Person.
Jesus and the Father are one in "essence." Well, what does that mean? It's not a Bible word, so what do we do with it, etc.
well our understanding is limited by boundaries. we just can't figure out or fully comprehend that God is outside of those... that's all, i think;)
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