This is my 2nd part in my string of thoughts on homosexuality. Back on July 19 of this year, there was a Gay Pride Parade in downtown Rochester. As usual, our church joined with some other Bible believing churches in the area and made a presence at a couple of the intersections along the parade route. I think it's neat because they advertise two sins in the title of their parade: Gay and Pride. Both are wrong before God. Maybe that's where I ought to begin this post, by demonstrating that homosexuality is wrong.Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Ok, let's move on to my next post...
Just kidding. While that verse does in fact plainly demonstrate that God views homosexuality as "abomination," I will go ahead and receive the argument that the same book of the Bible tells us that certain foods are "abomination." Yet, we would feel comfortable eating them today. So, to discuss the whole Old Testament / New Testament law issue, see my other posts, but are we limited to this being an Old Testament principle? I am going to post a larger passage from Romans now. There are groups that claim they are Christian, and try to get away passages in the Bible that speak on the subject of homosexuality (claiming they're all OT would be one way). I think they probably miss this passage because they're not using the right words in their concordance. I'm quite certain they're not getting their beliefs from their daily Bible readings, so I'll assume they're using a concordance to look up key words. Anyway, notice the words used to describe what these people did, after they turned away from God: (And, can I just remind you that God's words are much more important than my words, and that your time would be much more profitably spent if you read the following verses carefully and skim my blog, rather than the converse.)
Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Romans 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Romans 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Romans 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Romans 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Romans 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
"uncleanness," "lusts of their own hearts," "dishonour their own bodies," "vile affections," "against nature," "burned in their lust," "unseemly," "error"
Those are the words that God uses to describe homosexuality in the New Testament. We can throw in the following verses just to further enforce the point:
1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,Then there's Sodom. This city was destroyed by God's judgment, bringing fire and brimstone to the people there. Now, Sodom had plenty of sins (Ezekiel 16:49-59 -- and for those of you that want to use verse 49 to say that Sodom's sins were only the things found in that verse, just keep reading, and you'll see that verse 50 is adding more things to the list, and includes that they did "abomination."). But when the angels from God came to take Lot out of the city, the men of that city wanted to have sexual relations with them. They were so taken by their homosexuality that when Lot offered his two daughter, they didn't even want to take them! That story can be read in Genesis 19. Jude 1:7 goes on to use Lot as an example of of the judgment that God will bring on all workers of iniquity. The Bible uses the word "sodomite" to describe a homosexual, and they're constantly being told to drive them out. The sodomites were not to be allowed in the land.
1 Timothy 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
I would just like to add to this topic that transvestism (if there is such a word) is also considered abomination before God: Deuteronomy 22:5.
See, the Bible is pretty STRAIGHT on the matter. If you could forgive my puns here, we are told in Matthew 7 that "straight is the gate" that leads to life. It's really not an issue whether or not the Bible is for against homosexuality (because it is clearly against it). The issue that people have is whether or not they are going to believe the Bible, and therefore God, or if they are going to make their own religion, create their own image of God, just to suit their lusts.
Homosexuality is a sin. God says so, and frankly He is Who decides what is sin or not. Let's not forget that lying and heterosexual lust is just as much of a sin! That sounds like it will be another post though!
Hey, let's just submit our wills to God in every thing. Let's stop pretending that what we want to do so much, is acceptable in God's eyes, and instead surrender to the Almighty God Who loved us enough to send His Son to die in our places on the cross.
Just a thought...
4 comments:
Anonymous,
Thanks for the comment, I agree with much of what you are saying, however I think there might be a point of difference.
Let me start by saying that I re-read my post and other than the one paragraph where I used the puns (and asked forgiveness in the same breath :)) I did not see where my pride was coming out. Mind you, I am full of pride; it is wrong, and I'm constantly trying to stop it. I even said at the end of my post that heterosexual lust and lying is just as bad as homosexuality. So, how am I showing pride that I am better than them? I actually said the exact opposite - I'm as much of a sinner.
Now, I appreciate your acceptance of the truth that homosexuality (and pride) is a sin. At least we're starting at the same place.
I even agree that if we are going to keep them always at arms' length, we won't have the chance to win them for Christ. I really don't have a problem with the homosexuals, and with accepting them into our pews.
Here's where I think you and I may differ. Once they are in the pews, if the message they are hearing allows them to always sit and be comfortable in the pews without changing their behavior, then there is a problem. If you go to Ray Boltz's new church, and you are a homosexual, you will be welcome to visit, and you will be welcome to stay just as you are. However, when the truth of God's word and of His justice is being properly taught, the homosexual should not feel comfortable around it - not because of the preacher, but because of the message from God that comes from Scripture.
If you read my comments on yesterday's post carefully, you will see that I would have no problem with others using Ray Boltz's songs. I said that I would not use them personally (which includes my family) because of the misunderstanding that could come from them. If someone hears me singing a Ray Boltz song and knows about him, then they might think that I am condoning what he is doing. I want to be sure to keep myself separate. I do not walk in agreement with him, and I do not want people to think that I do.
And as I said, if an artist comes out and says they're not compatible with their spouse, and so they are going to divorce them -- I'll hold the same stance. I will not walk in agreement with that because God hates divorce, I cannot condone it. I disagree with you that this stance is "sheer non sense." That is what Paul taught in Romans 14 and in 1 Corinthians 10.
I can't tell you whether or not those songs were "Holy Spirit inspired." Honestly, if someone is willing to openly reject God's word (by saying that living in sin is ok), then I have a hard time believing that that person has the Holy Spirit in him in the first place. Now, it could just be that he is fighting and losing to a tremendous battle against the flesh here, but if he really is willing to simply say, Nope, I don't care what God says, I am going to do what I want to do... then I don't see true repentance, and I don't see true faith - without which, there is no salvation and no Holy Spirit.
Anyway, I appreciate the encouragement and the reminder to refrain from pride on this subject. Honestly, if someone is willing to admit that homosexuality is a sin, and they partake in it - I can deal with that person. But when someone says that the Holy God is ok with that person living in homosexuality, and that it is not a sin against Him, then I have a problem.
I hope this helps clarify any thing that needed it.
I agree Andy, I understand someone struggling with a sin, but when they stop struggling and accept that behavior they are in a different league.
Ray Boltz comments about being brought closer to God by accepting his lifestyle is more of a problem than struggling with his homosexuality. If he was struggling, at least he'd be struggling. He has gone the opposite way and instread of struggling he is embracing it.
I also do strongly feel that we need to do more to reach the gay community. Once a year holding signs and passing out tracts at a parade is not enough, and most everyone that does have a ministry to the homosexuals tells them that it's ok, they were made that way. We need to find a balanced way to minister to them in Grace & Truth... any suggestions?
okay, I do see your point of view a little more now that you have explained. I don't think I would keep a cd of his music either if I did have one. It would just sadden me everytime I listened anyway. I can appreciate your comments about being seperate. I was trying to point out that the music could still be used for God's glory. Not everyone that ever hears his songs will know this sad story. Yes, you are right who knows what was in his heart all these years and only the Lord knows where Ray will spend eternity, but one thing I do know is that God can use any one to fulfill His purposes. Who knows how many have come to Christ as a result of his songs? Hey, God did use a donkey once didn't he? Now, I am not calling Ray Boltz a donkey at all. what I really wanted to get across in my last post was to say that homosexuals are people,not just sinners. What I am trying to say is just what Mr. Young has said ...lets minister to them in Grace and Truth. So many christians are trying to shove truth down the throats of sinners in self-rightousness not ministering the Gospel of Grace as well. That being said I also am in total agreement with you that when they are in the pews they need to hear the truth, I do not agree with watering down the scriptures to make people feel comfortable. No political correctnesss here, but the same Bible that calls homosexuality an abomination also has Rom. 5:8 to also tell of God's ultimate love , the love that we are to love sinners with . We can not forget He loved us while we were still sinners. Christ loves the sinner, do we? That really is my question. I may have misunderstood you and I apoligize if I did but your comment of being so surprised that you knew some of his songs and even some of the churches you have been around to rang a little of smugness if nothing else. The two worlds coliding was so surprising to you that someone who wrote songs even your churches would sing would actually be in this sin? The church needs to live a life of example but not be so completely seperated in our lofty places that we can not love the sinner. We are called to more than just "deal with that person" we are called to love them. Not after they repent, but while they are still in their sin. Don't misunderstand me I am not saying condone their sin, but who will be the ones to really show God's love and help them see their true identity in Christ and the love of the Father. I am grieved by the churches that are telling people that the Bible doesn't mean what it says about homosexuality being a sin , they are buying into doctrines of demons and selling a lie to hurting people that they can live in sin and still go to heaven. One thing that also grieves me is that they are offering a false happiness to stay in this lifestyle of bondage that alinates them from a God who knows their true identity. I hope we all examine our hearts and see that we need to minister out of love and compassion and the Word of god. The Holy Spirit will do the convicting, that is not our job. We are to love the Lord our God with everything and love our neighbor as ourselves as Luke 10:27 says. Lets make sure that is our motivation.
Thank for the comment again, Anonmymous...
Post a Comment